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Darwin-fish: Religious Hatred Catalyst?
Written by -Nick- Undoubtedly, religion has been a catalyst to war for centuries.The majority of warring in the old western civilization was based completely on difference in religion.The foundation of the United States was based upon the right to practice religion in peace (or away from the Queen at least).The fighting between Middle Eastern countries currently stems from religious issues.
Having a
In what ways has our current culture trivialized religion which was intolerable not long ago? In other words, in what ways have we let our society get away with bucketfuls of ignorant and contradicting actions?
The ‘Darwin Fish’ inches away from a co-exist bumper sticker is only one great example of these displays of ignorance, there are a million more.Which ones do you most often come across in your daily life?
I think it all comes down to paying attention. If you do things without paying attention, you will probably get sucked in to the “coolness” of society and end up with the normal progressions of contradictory behavior that society often promotes.
The funny thing is these people probably do not even know the meaning of the bumper stickers. They just put them on the car. How can someone be so contradictory if they truly know what it is they are advertising here? Crazy!!
Good point. For instance, how many people actually know how the ‘Jesus Fish’ came to be. I’ll stake a big chunk of my credibility that 85% of the bumper sticker toting community doesn’t. I hope this lightens up your life.
The ‘Jesus Fish’ symbol is actually called an ichthys. The letters ‘ichthys’ are the Greek letters for ‘fish’, which Christians used as a symbol to point to the place where they held their underground meetings when they were still being persecuted for their beliefs.
Advice: Spend less less time buying bumper stickers, and more time on Wikipedia.
First off i think you’re giving the bumper-sticker community too much credit by saying that 15% of them know where the “Jesus Fish” came from. My second idea is that this is possibly not so contradictory as you think. Some very extreme religious people say that evolution is a “master plan of the devil”, and that to believe it is outright blasphemy. At least I know i cant stand people that close-minded and maybe this person is simply putting out two bumper stickers that are saying “Hey maybe you should be more open minded to ideas that differ from your own”. Then again maybe not.
Alex, that makes sense… but I just think that the motivation for putting a Darwin-fishwithlegs on your car promotes the fact that you’re against Christianity.. because you’re, in essence, making fun of it. Saying that your way of thinking is more “evolved” than the other person’s (Christianity). If a person believed evolution and was fine with Christianity I would suggest just getting a regular bumpersticker having to do with evolution..not one that makes fun of the Christian-fish. Or, you could of course take the classy look, and not get a bumpersticker at all.
Though I agree that it is okay to have a bumper sticker claiming Darwinism to be beside a bumper sticker which stands for peace among religion and ideas, I DON’T agree with ‘Darwin Fish’ logo itself. It is, in fact, a mockery of a Christian mark. Mocking another religion is exactly the opposite of the meaning of the ‘coexist’ bumper sticker. Hence, the driver is a hypocrit. He/she gives people who truly believe in Darwinism a bad name.
This is why I don’t like bumper stickers. I know there are stupid people out there. I wish I just didn’t have to see people prove it.
You know, i think that the Jesus fish actually ate Darwin(ism) and now that is in its stomach! The Jesus fish didn’t originally have legs, but now does because ingesting Darwin(ism) has allowed to walk on land!
Could it be that the owner of the vehicle was suggesting that ingesting Darwin(ism) has allowed “the place where they held their underground meetings when they were still being persecuted for their beliefs” to be mobile?
the fish has nothing to do with christian meetings, its related to the age of pisces, remember the strory of the golden calf, that was about the age of taurus.
christians are a pagan religion in wich jesus is the sun personified. hence he is called the sun of god and you go to church on sunsday.
and darwinism is a religion as they have about as much evidence of it as christians do for god.
Religions obviously have not been built on evidence, but on faith. However, there are several links between christianity and the ‘ichthys’. The before mentioned underground meetings mark, the story of the golden calf and even that a large majority of Jesus’ disciples were fisherman. Regardless, it’s quite obvious that the Darwin sticker is offensive, and should be burned.
Or something extreme of that nature.
why is the nazi symbol bad, but the cross is ok? the cross has been responsible for more carnage than the swastika.
Really? The cross wiped out a whole group of people through torture and discrimination? I don’t think so. Rather the cross is a symbol of the Christian faith. It symbolizes a Christ who laid down his life for the sins of His people willingly. One act of selflessness compared to a symbol of a group who wanted to rule the world and kill anyone who did not fit their criteria? I don’t think so, but nice try.
Alright Patty-cakes,
First of all, a symbol can’t be “responsible” for anything. People are responsible. Whether they use the symbols for good or bad is up to them; Not the symbol, or anything it stands for.
Many awful things have been done in the name of “Christianity”. But the truth of the matter is that the cross is a symbol of peace, hope, and love. Where as the swastika is a symbol of evil and reckless hatred.
Facts. Facts. Facts. Maybe you’re right though. Just as the Germans have tried to write the halocaust out of their history books, western civilization might have succeeded in writing a similar halocaust, in the name of christianity, out of our history books. However, HIGHLY unlikely. I challenge you to find me some proof that Christianity has caused more wrongful deaths than the deaths due to the halocaust alone. Short of any forseeable apacolypse, Christianity does not compare with the horific nature of Hitler’s actions.
Actually, the anti-Semitic Swastika is a symbol for the collision of Socialism and Nationalism.
This is a fantastic discussion. Let me play devil’s advocate for a moment here, though. Let’s accept the fish as a religious symbol, I believe it’s widely recognized as such. If we look at the original poster’s (OP’s) discussion, comparing Jesus and Charles Darwin is nigh impossible. They are two different things all together. Jesus is an icon of a religion, wereas Darwin is the creator of a theory. However, if we look beyond the figures, we are comparing two beliefs (or theories).
The first belief is the belief that the earth and its heavens were created by an omniscient being. That’s all fine and good, we have a right to believe as we wish. (Creationist Theory)
The second belief, is the belief of the big-bang theory, and thus evolution. That’s all fine and good, we have a right to believe as we wish. (Evolutionist Theory)
The point here is, the person in question isn’t “wrong” for putting a symbol of the 2nd belief on his vehicle…IF in fact, that is truly his belief.
Unfortunately, what we find, especially in our current decade… is people doing things for the sake of being part of the in-crowd. Darwin’s theory is becoming increasingly more popular, not becaues people study it, but because a decade ago, someone said and believed in it strongly.
The Darwin Fish is a response to the religious (I hesitate to say Christian, as Christian’s aren’t the only ones who believe the earth was created by a being) symbol. And as such, the “fish” symbol itself has evolved. In the beginning, it didn’t have the name “Jesus” imbedded in it. When that was added, it became a Christian symbol. Now, with the popularity of the Darwin Fish, they’ve rebutted again with the Jesus Fish eating the Darwin Fish.
Symbols have different meanings to everyone. As odd as it sounds, take a look at the first 10 minutes of The Davinci Code (movie, not the book) and listen to the main character’s lecture. Symbols come from everywhere, and have meaning to everyone. They don’t always mean the same thing to everyone. Devil’s Pitchfork vs. Poseidon’s Tritan as an example. They are both symbols of power, but one “good”, and one “evil”.
Essentially what I’m posturing through this rambling, is that if you look beyond the religious symbol and treat the “jesus fish” as a symbol of creation theory, and not it’s link to Jesus, then the Darwin fish makes a little more sense. If the fish had said “Evolve” instead of Darwin, would it have made more sense to you?
Personally, I don’t believe the person in question put the bumper stickers on their car because they believed in them. They put them on their car because its the “in thing to do.”
PS - Remember Devil’s Advocate - Don’t shoot her
I’m a creationist theory believer 
Great points Danielle,
In my opinion though, the reason the Jesus fish is a fish instead of a ….goat or… tree is because it is a symbol to represent what Jesus said about being “fishers of men”. So I don’t consider to have anything to do with creation. It’s a good discussion of semantics though, I must agree.
I would like to present a few more thoughts on this matter:
1. in regards to the comment about “why is the nazi symbol bad, but the cross is ok? the cross has been responsible for more carnage than the swastika…” i would like to present a certain paradigm that is intended for rhetorical purposes as well as to undo the belief that everyone on the earth holds One True translation of The Bible.
Let’s toss around a couple previously stated terms:
Nazis, Christians, Swastika, The Cross
There is one term that may have led to the interlinking of all of these terms. And that is:
the Aryans.
Were Aryans linked with Christianity?
1. Look at the beliefs of the Aryans in creating a perfect race superior to all others in the period of the Holocaust.
2. Look at the beliefs of Right-Wing Extreme Christians who hold that white Americans are the supreme race.
Both of these groups have the belief that they are being threatened by a group(s) they feel are subordinate to them. They also have come to the belief that their “supremacy” stemmed from their Creator.
Again, symbols do not kill people. People kill people. Our translations of these symbols as being good or evil is relative to our history with the theologies. This is why there are so many sub-groups of Christianity. This is why there are so many sub-groups of Right Wing Extremism.
Also,
the rate of which the killings took place is important.
The Nazis killed non-Aryans at a very fast pace, in a few years time span.
The Nazis created genocidal tendencies in imposing Hitler’s belief of “racial hygiene.” Important to note here, that Hitler’s ideas on this subject were taken from a man who had distorted beliefs about / and misuse of Social Darwinism
(there can be many translations of single symbols, again, good or evil in relation to one’s personal background.)
Have Christians killed as many people as the Nazis over the time of history?
Although the Nazis committed genocide during a time of (primarily one) war, there are numerous wars linked to Christianity, Catholicism, and Protestantism (and “The Thirty Years War” splitting the Catholics and the Protestants of Europe in the 17th century! Also in Germany!)
The casualties in this war resulted in Germany losing ~30% of its population on average. Some areas lost up to two-thirds of their population, while others lost less than 30%.
Other Notable Christian wars were: The French Wars of Religion, The Eighty Years War in Netherlands, the Crusades, and the current conflict in Ireland.
It is really difficult to compare the entire history of people killed in the name of Christianity (the cross of Jesus) to the decade of (the broadest definition) ~ 17 million deaths in the name of Hitler (the Nazi swastika) due to census difficulties, failure to keep track of bodies, and other possible misuses of statistics, and time:
One does not think of the Christians as performing a genocide on any group of people.
One makes an immediate connection that the Nazis performed an extensive genocide at a very fast rate.
Any further research on possible figures of death in the name of God over the period of human history?
The research would be VERY interesting. If I had the time and the money that is something I would be whole-heartedly interested in. However, I don’t. Amazing information though Kevin. Now that you mention it, there are a lot of wars involving Christianity. 300 years from now, what we call the war on terrorism, might be called a war between christians and muslims. It is far fetched, but who knows how history could distort information?
Update: To my liking, today I witnessed another interesting bumper sticker combination. On the back of a Hyundai stuck the combination of two very interesting stickers. To the right of the license plate wielded an ‘Army of One’ national guard bumper sticker. While to the left of the license plate a screaming yellow sticker declared ‘Question Authority!’. I believe someone is confused. A contradiction perhaps?
Can anyone explain this to me?
There are so many ambiguous different factors that are have gone / are still causing this war to continue that it may become uncertain why exactly we are there. However, if we are to try to make some connections with the United States foreign policy in the Middle East, a prominently Islamic section of the world, and with Islamic Fundamentalists “threatening” the well-being of a prominently Christian American society, there must be some kind of underlying theme of war for religious protection of Americans. Whether this war is being done in the name of God is again, ambiguous. The administration thrives on ambiguity. We are not committing a genocide in the Middle East obviously, however, the thought that terrorists were constantly threatening Americans has been imbued in our brains.
In linking this with tendencies of Right-Wing Christian Extremists, we can find connections: again, they feel threatened by groups they feel are “subordinate” to them, and therefore are forced to confront them in order to maintain freedoms.
Again, I am not suggesting that this war could be considered strictly a Christian War, because many other factors go into it including foreign policy in the area, governmental need for natural resources… However, as you suggested, a few hundred years down the road, the idea that this war could be considered a holy war is a definitely possibility, especially with changes in world perspectives, America’s stance in world affairs, and its changing economy.
well, what did the pope do during the holocaust? what about the spanish inquisition?
Tell us.
you could check out this guys research. http://www.geocities.com/tlthe5th/nazi.html
Pat,
You need to get a grip on reality. This is nonsense.
But of course, as always,
thanks for your contribution.
I’ll agree with you that the website there is nonsense, but just google “vatican nazi” It’s true that the vatican was behind hitler, I mean come on, where is the vatican? Rome? and who did hitler ally with? Italy? hello!?
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